DotA Assault

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by sniperwolf777 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 pm

Alright sorry myre. Razz


Last edited by sniperwolf777 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:03 am

I will make this an official project (eg: Give it a section) tomorrow during keyboarding. I have to plan my hero as well. He should be amazing.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Goldendercon on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:06 pm

wait, wait, wait... I don't know how to code these things(killer2c's spells) can I just code my own? just asking, I could still try if you want, oh and dark, I'll need your help on this...
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Killer2c on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:53 pm

hmm...wich are the spells u cant code?and also what are your sugestion of spells?
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:32 pm

Wow, great way to be a butt. Just because it's not in Vexorian-esque vJASS doesn't mean that it's in "newb GUI".

And
personally, I think I should be in charge of what code does and does
not go into this project. Too many maps are overloaded with 500000
vJASS systems for the sole purpose of them being "high tech". I could
code this entire thing using only the basics of vJASS and it would be
just as good as it would had I used epic vJASS.
Well my friend, either you like it or not, GUI will always be noob.
And if you look at my map you will see I don0t use 50000 vJASS systems .... You will however need a few of them to make this thing near decent.


This is an unnecessary addition for spells that do not require a
large flux of timers. It'd be a waste of code and effort to use timer
recycling when timers are hardly used.
Group recycling is old as I said, but Timer recycling is a must have. You can't evade the fact most good spells will be synchronized.

And darkwulfv no one is trying to be the boss, I am just trying to help.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by sniperwolf777 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:34 pm

Phoenix. Lets not start a flame war. Calm down. leave myre to the GUI
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:59 pm

Phoenix. Lets not start a flame war. Calm down. leave myre to the GUI
My intention was never to start a flame war but merely to state a fact. GUI is by far the worst thing a map can have to make spells. Myre can (and should) learn JASS or vJASS. You guys have a leader that is a pro at JASS and that has tutorials to teach JASS to people and JASS lessons, therefore Myre (and his team) has no excuse to make a map with low quality. My point is: if you can do something better, why not ?

However, If you guys don't give value to the resources that you have (which somehow I believe it is becoming a habbit of yours) then you will make a GUI based map.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:38 pm

Heyheyhey, I don't support GUI. I was just trying to end the "MASS VJASS" stuff. Not every map has to have vJASS, and no, a map does not need vJASS to be decent. Does it help? Yes, but it depends on what's going on. The map will be made in pure JASS + some vJASS (mainly the basics; structs etc.), I can assure you of that. I wouldn't let a project with my namesake be shit.

but Timer recycling is a must have. You can't evade the fact most good spells will be synchronized.
It's really only necessary in high-use timer spells and the such. Again, you seem to be pointing towards "good" (decent, etc.), but I think that view is a little skewered here; but let's not argue over what's "good" and what isn't. If timer recyling looks useful, we'll use it.
PS: What do you mean they will be "synchronized"?

I wasn't saying anyone was being the boss. I was just stating that I will likely be in charge of coding, as I'm the one with the most credentials (aside from you, who I consider an equal in JASS (although you're probably better at vJASS)) who will be working on this project. I'm also not a big fan of mass-vjass'ing a map. I use it, but only when absolutely necessary.

All that aside; I will be working on my hero (after I look at Phoenix's map), so hopefully all of that will be done soon and I can submit him to you guys.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:06 pm

Heyheyhey, I don't support GUI. I was just trying to end the "MASS
VJASS" stuff. Not every map has to have vJASS, and no, a map does not
need vJASS to be decent. Does it help? Yes, but it depends on what's
going on. The map will be made in pure JASS + some vJASS (mainly the
basics; structs etc.), I can assure you of that. I wouldn't let a
project with my namesake be shit.
Structs are nice but, free global declaration, scopes and libraries is a must have when working with JNGP.You should also know that JNGP has problems with varaiables declared using the GUI table (pressing CTRL+B).


(aside from you, who I consider an equal in JASS (although you're probably better at vJASS))
Thx =P

PS: What do you mean they will be "synchronized"?




(adj) :


having attained synchronization, together, coordinated




"the synchronized swimmers did everything together, even breathing at the same time."

means when your spells need to have a small time limit to perform decently. Waits are out of option (i think you already know this)

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:28 am

Free globals and libraries are a given; shouldn't even be second-guessed when using vjass.

I know what synchronized means... I meant what you meant in your context. And I'm still not getting why you insist timer recycling is so necessary; you're assuming lots of timers will be used, when in reality (although highly unlikely in this case) all the spells could be made w/o the use of timers aside from the occaisonal secondary-effect (aka not period or high-frequency).

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Goldendercon on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:33 am


There's the desired model for my hero, credits go to General Frank. However, if normal models would be used
I'd prefer the bloodmage, please and thank you:D
Abilities:

-Leveled- Draconic Rage: Enhances walkspeed and attack speed by X%
-Leveled- Dragon Missile: Launches a missile that takes the form of a dragon at the enemy dealing 50/100/150 damage.
Draconic Regeneration - speeds up the regeneration of the dragon by 10%.
Stomp - stomps the earth dealing 100 damage in a 300 range
WyrmWrath - fires a horde of angry wyrm spirits at the enemy
each dealing 20 damage and slowing enemies in an area
DragonRoar - empowers nearby heros, increasing strength by 5
for 10 seconds.
Hand of the Dragon - the dragon hero summons two wyrms to help it increasing strength by 5 and changes its meelee attack to ranged.
Dragon Wing - the hero flaps its wings hard and knockbacks 20 units around it
Draconic Sanctum - creates an area of safety around the dragon where allies can heal themselves without fear of enemies
Summon Wyrm - summons an angry wyrm to do the dragon's bidding. The wyrm has frost breath and can freeze enemies in their tracks
Draconic Charge - the dragon gathers flames into its body creating energy and releasing this energy by charging at the enemy
ULTI: Draconic Circle - creates a circle of enraged wyrm spirits that attack enemies in a wide range. basically a modified phoenix circle
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:23 pm

I know what synchronized means... I meant what you meant in your
context. And I'm still not getting why you insist timer recycling is so
necessary; you're assuming lots of timers will be used, when in reality
(although highly unlikely in this case) all the spells could be made
w/o the use of timers aside from the occaisonal secondary-effect (aka
not period or high-frequency).
Most spells need timers, I know for self experience. However if you don't want to use them what will you use ? Waits ? (I hope not, they are very evil. I made a thread a while ago, it is 3 pages long all with bad stuff about waits!)

I think I already have an idea for my hero. it will use 2 models (1 from game, 1 imported). I am making a jump spell the hero can use now, but I still lack ideas for the other things.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:32 pm

Actually a full map of triggered spells can go without timers OR waits (although the latter would be difficult). You're thinking too complex with spells, I'm thinking.

And i am a firm believer that waits are not evil if you use them properly. I've been using them since day one, and I plan to use them till the end. It's all situational.

PS: Why is you're hero using 2 models?

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:17 pm

Actually a full map of triggered spells can go without timers OR waits
(although the latter would be difficult). You're thinking too complex
with spells, I'm thinking.

And i am a firm believer that waits
are not evil if you use them properly. I've been using them since day
one, and I plan to use them till the end. It's all situational.
~I don't think the complex way, I think the decent way. You (like most old JASSERS) believe waits are not evil. Yet it is proven they are. For your homework (lol) please read this thread, you will soon understand how waits suck in multiplayer:
http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=102149&highlight=waits

There are a lot more threads, but I have special love for this one since I created it (lol).

Why two models ??
Well, see this:
http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=93662
This is the main body of my hero. Than an ultimate will make the hero fly (thus using the other model).

There are other options such as:
http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=96589&highlight=General+Frank

For more High Elven warriors or a Chaos Orc combo.

I still haven't decided yet though =P

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:47 pm

*sigh*
PolledWait. Not TSA. PolledWait. There is a significant difference between the two, and I speak of the former, not the latter. PolledWait is excellent for a lot of things and far more convenient than a timer. TSA should never be used. Dammit, why doesn't anybody differentiate the two?

And for the record, the only trouble I've ever had (ever) with timers was very very mild innaccuracy (but I never use it on high-frequency anything, so it's never noticed) and thread crashing before I knew it could do that. Never seen a game crash because of it. I'm actually tempted to start a thread to prove a point, because there IS a difference between PolledWait + TSA.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by sniperwolf777 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:05 am

Um.. Why not make a seperate thread so you two can argue Before you highjack this one. On topic: Has anyone betad myres new versions. i hav been busy. Im good now
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Mooo-Gunsniper on Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:44 am

Betas are available now?

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by sniperwolf777 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:47 am

No moo i mean teh stuff we played. And phoenix.
Spoiler:
YOu are a control freak. Everything has to be done your way Or its sucks. You want The map the way you want. MAKE A NEW FUCKING MAP. INstead of Trying to add 10 0000 Programs hat are unneccasry.
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by CaptainFluffy on Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:15 am

Pheonix might not take lightly to that comment sniper T_T.
In other news, i have updated my hero. And i hope myre returns to work on the map. I might make a big list of bugs i maybe will find in the map XD.
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:53 pm

*sigh*
PolledWait. Not TSA. PolledWait. There is a significant
difference between the two, and I speak of the former, not the latter.
PolledWait is excellent for a lot of things and far more convenient
than a timer.
OMG !!! You never say that ever again ! That is a huge mistake ! PolledWait is 100x worse than a single TSA. Why ? Because it uses TSA's in inner code and even worse, it leaks a timer in every use !!!
Seriously, don't use that, you will doom your project to huge memory leaks and TSA's...

And no, we are not stealing this thread, we are in a discussion for the greater good of the project. Just because you can't participate on it because you don't even know what a TSA is, it doesn't mean we have to start a new thread ...

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Goldendercon on Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:03 pm

oh pish-posh, stop it, you're getting nowhere with this, you're both looking at this with different P.O.V(Points Of View). You both have to accept what the other is thinking unless you want this to become a flame war. Flame_Phoenix, you can't convince Darkwulfv that way. You can never convince someone by screaming at the top of your lungs. I'm not taking sides. Just giving advice. Thank You.
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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Mooo-Gunsniper on Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:20 pm

Yeah comon, be friends, be happy! We should all care for each other. ^.^

Anyways, time to get back on topic.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Myre on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:19 am

Yeah, get back on topic or bad things will happen.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by darkwulfv on Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:53 am

Sniper, you've no idea what you're talking about, so I'll let you off with a warning... Maybe.

And yes, Phoenix, if you'd like to continue to banter about Timers and waits, we should do so in another thread.

In regards to this topic, I'll work on my hero ASAP.


And Phoenix? You're a nutcase, man. Both Vex and Griffen said PolledWait was fine. And if you read your own thread, Vex himself says that PolledWait does NOT leak a timer, it leaks a single handle reference. Oh teh noes. And the optimizer (which I always use) replaces it with PolledWait2, which does NOT leak.
Denying the usefulness of PolledWait is neglectful. Timers are definitely > TSA/PW, but honestly PW is just so much neater and easier to use for waits that do not have to be to-the-nanosecond accurate.

PS: If you want to continue discussing this, please open a topic in the coding section, we're kind of hijacking the thread.

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Re: DotA Assault

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:25 am

You both have to accept what the other is thinking unless you want this
to become a flame war. Flame_Phoenix, you can't convince Darkwulfv that
way. You can never convince someone by screaming at the top of your
lungs. I'm not taking sides. Just giving advice. Thank You.
I am merely trying to convince DK that PW are evil. Why does every one think I am insulting him !! No insults ! We are trying to reach a conclusion by rational means of conversation.

And Phoenix? You're a nutcase, man. Both Vex and Griffen said
PolledWait was fine. And if you read your own thread, Vex himself says
that PolledWait does NOT leak a timer, it leaks a single handle
reference. Oh teh noes. And the optimizer (which I always use) replaces
it with PolledWait2, which does NOT leak.
Denying the usefulness
of PolledWait is neglectful. Timers are definitely > TSA/PW, but
honestly PW is just so much neater and easier to use for waits that do
not have to be to-the-nanosecond accurate.
I know PW is better than TSA, but I find it odd that VEx would approve a spell with PW. I know he replaced PW with PW2 but still, if you look at its code you will see PW uses a TSA, so it is as evil as it and it leaks a handle (which I I think Vex said was a timer).I will ask Wc3c for more information about this matter, although I can't denny TSA and PW are easier for the average user to use, I never use them because it is always a risky business to do so.


PS: If you want to continue discussing this, please open a topic in the coding section, we're kind of hijacking the thread.
MMMmmmm, I never intended this to go this far. I was expecting you to accept the evidence that using Timers vs TSA and its relatives would be a saffer choice.
However I agree, If I talk on this again (don't count this time) I will make it in new thread.

Finally about heroes, what did you guys think of my ideas ??
We can have morph heroes ! =P
How many models can I use (exported) ?
and how many ingame models can I use ?
I think I may create a gnome hero instead !=P

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